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Hello, it’s time for another extended version of the Horseman’s Corner.
Today it’s an archived interview with the late Howard Hale and equine author Tom Moates.
You’re going to enjoy this one. Let’s listen in.
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Good morning. Thanks for joining me for today’s edition of the Horseman’s Corner.
I’m Howard Hale, host of the program.
Guest on this segment of the show is equine author Tom Moates.
Let’s get started with Tom.
Tom, what got you interested in horses in the first place?
Thanks for having me on the show, Howard.
I tell you, I got started late in life with horses out of my mid-thirties
and I had been married to my wife Carol for over a decade.
She had had horses earlier in her life and it was really something we hadn’t discussed much.
Then one summer she saw this horse in a newspaper for sale and just out of the blue,
we went and looked at this horse and that horse came home.
The horse’s name is Neegee and that story has sort of spurred on a series of books that I’ve done.
Neegee was my introduction to horses, at least in horsemanship and an earnest relationship with horses.
I’d fed a few over the years. I’d grown up on a large dairy farm and we had a few that we cared for there.
But I had never really done much in terms of riding.
For the average person I’d say I was sort of smitten and obsessed, rather late in life.
What were you doing before you got involved with the writing as an equine journalist and author?
Well, I always wanted to be a writer and I had gone to university and had actually majored in English writing at George Mason University here in Virginia
and was working, really I was probably best known for my work writing about alternative energy and homesteading, that kind of thing.
I had done some work as an alternative energy contractor, solar work mostly, back up before it was widely known and cool,
and it was sort of more expensive and on the margins of people’s minds.
And then when Neegee entered my life, it kind of like the obsession with writing and the obsession with horses combined and collided,
and my career as a writer really launched at that point, even though I’d been struggling to make it as a writer.
The horse was really, it was such a blessing for me, and it was also a blessing for my career.
And almost instantly my work as a writer tripled or quadrupled, it was just amazing, really.
What keeps you going? What keeps you interested in the horses?
Well, horses themselves, it’s just layers upon layers upon layers of understanding.
Horses are always challenging me. I have those days where I get really frustrated, of course, but then I also have those days
where I will get something done with a horse. I’ll achieve a certain understanding, and boy, those moments,
there’s nothing else quite like it for me, and I just, you know, if I can spend the most time I can spend each day with a horse,
the better off I feel, I really enjoy that and just have a passion for it.
Let’s talk about some of the publications you’ve written for.
I’ve read some of your stuff in America’s horse. That’s why I gave you a call. I read several articles that you had in America’s horse.
What are some of the other publications that you’ve written for?
Well, initially it was a collective horseman that got me started. Emily catching over at a collective horseman, the editor and owner of the magazine there.
She published a few of my essays early on, and, you know, really the first book in a series, it’s a horse’s thought,
and then the second book in that series between the reins, and then one that’s just come out here recently called,
Further Along the Trail. That first book, a horse’s thought, the first few chapters of it were initially essays that I had written for magazines.
Some of them ran in America’s horse, and some of them also ran in a collective horseman.
But in terms of being an equestrian journalist and a freelancer, I’ve written for quite a number of magazines,
the AQHA, Magazines of America’s Horse, and the American Quarter Horse Journal.
I’m very frequently a contributor to both of those. It’s one of my favorite markets to write for,
and I have quarter horses myself, and I have quite a love for them, even though I do enjoy working with all different kinds of breeds.
I’ve really enjoyed my quarter horses. I also have written for magazines.
I’m on the Math Tatted Equis magazine, and a lot of people are familiar with my work there, particularly I contribute case reports,
sort of medical case reports there often. I’m just sort of fascinated with the veterinary research and science,
and often the case reports are veterinary incidents that are a little bit unusual.
I have a kind of a curiosity for things like that, and I also like to help spread information to other horse owners
and veterinarians as well, and Equis is a lot of fun for that reason.
I’ve written for other publications like American Cowboy. Recently I’ve been doing some work for Ranch & Riautta magazine,
which is a new magazine that has a strong, sort of downloadable presence,
which is a little bit used for the new technology, AJ Mangum, that used to edit over at Western Horseman.
He’s sort of piloting the editorial side of that project.
And of course I write for Western Horseman as well. Lately, the most recent things I’ve done have been sort of the women of the West interviews,
and they’re sort of a collage of quotes of various women in the West, real ranch women,
and that’s been a lot of fun to do. I’ve enjoyed those quite a bit.
And I’ve been doing some work overseas as well. A lot of times my work will appear in an Australian magazine called Hoofbeats,
and also in the UK recently I’ve been doing some work for a new magazine called Western Horse UK There,
sharing some of our American Western writing traditions. And some of the work in my books as well has been excerpted there for UK.
I’ve had a big response from that.
That’s interesting that there is an interest in the Western horse and the Western lifestyle overseas.
Yeah, and I think Australia, I’ve always had a pretty strong readership in Australia.
And I have a good friend there named Ross Jacobs who’s a clinician, and he’s also worked with my mentor clinician Harry Whitney.
Those three books that I mentioned earlier, they really relate a lot of my sort of Harry’s patient guidance helping me work through a lot of learning about horsemanship
and some of the troubles that I’ve had over the years with various horses.
Ross has been studying with Harry longer than I have, and he teaches clinics.
And I think his students are part of my readership there.
And of course they have a lot of ranches and more of a sort of at least Australian style Western writing.
But in the UK you typically think it’s an English world.
But I feel like there must be a surge in interest in the Western style of writing there.
And of course the people who are reading my work and I’m getting some emails and some feedback on my books from folks there.
They’re newcomers to the style of writing and really enjoying it.
And I don’t know, it could be the American influence being exported, which I assume it’s just some of the things going on in the media.
And I know some of the clinicians have done quite well there in the last decade.
So I’m sure it’s a number of things that are related to that.
But it’s always exciting to talk to readers wherever they are.
And if people are enjoying the books and enjoying the articles, it’s wonderful to get that kind of feedback.
But Tom if I want to get my grubby little paws on one of your books and purchase it and read it, how do I go about doing it?
Well they’re available pretty much at any major online outlet.
I sell them through the website.
It’s http://www.TomMotes.com which looks like a badly misspelled tomatoes.
But I try to capitalize the T and the M so it stands out.
But we fell through the website, of course Amazon, Barnes and Noble, in amazon.co.uk in England.
And in Australia we actually can have the books printed and shipped in country there.
So folks, actually the fastest and most dependable way in Australia for folks to get them is through my website.
Okay, how long have you been doing this?
You said you were in your mid-30s when you got your first horse.
I’ll ask you a personal question, how many years you been in and how old are you now?
I’d have to do some math and I’m not too good with the math.
That’s why they leave me to work with the words.
So I’ve been at it for, I want to say, probably going on 12, 13 years now.
And I’ve been so obsessed with it, I almost feel like it’s been twice that long in terms of experience.
Just because you know, you kind of, gosh, the hours that I can put into it sometimes is really enjoyable for me.
You know, it’s kind of like doing what I do.
I’ve got the freedom to work at it 80 hours a week and it doesn’t seem like work because I love it so much.
Tom, let’s take a break and hear from the folks who’ve put the bills for this program, but we’ll be back with more from Tom Moats in a moment you’re listening to the Horseman’s Corner.
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Welcome back to the Horseman’s Corner. I’m Howard Hale, host of the program.
And let’s continue our discussion with equine author and journalist, Tom Moats.
What do you hope to accomplish with this body of work that you’re doing? What’s your goals?
Maybe the best way to kind of explain that is to share a little feedback that I often get because it’s feedback that always makes me feel really
good about what I’m trying to do. You know, I’m trying to share my personal experiences and, you know, the feedback that I get from readers so often is that they really appreciate the honesty in my books.
And I think what they mean is that, you know, these aren’t books that try to teach, and they certainly don’t teach deliberately.
And if they, you know, I share my first-hand experiences with horses, and I share what I’ve personally seen in clinics, and also sometimes we’ll try to get the voices of other folks who have visited with me about aspects of horsemanship that I’ve found really, really helpful.
And so I compile these things into the narrative of the books. And, you know, I get reader responses that just really thank me for sharing, you know, the stories, the wrecks, the hard things, the difficult things, the embarrassing things that I’ve gone through, because
they also, you know, a lot of people have gone through these same things. And so my books don’t try to say, hey, you know, here’s where you can get your horse going better in 10 steps, you know. It’s actually quite the opposite of that.
It’s just personal experiences that have been very difficult for me, and yet I’ve found a way to improve my relationship with the horse in some way, either muddling through it myself or actually seeing something that happened.
But very often, you know, getting advice from a friend clinician, Harry Whitney, and, you know, I’ll often visit with him, either at clinics or on the phone. We’ve been good friends for a long time.
And he has such an amazing way of helping people to see what’s going on with a horse and to, you know, really try to improve communication there. And, you know, so much of the work in my books, in particular, is straight, you know, from learning from Harry.
And the first book’s entitled The Horse’s Thought, and I mean, in a way, it’s a great way to start, because Harry’s really hung up on a horse’s thought, where a horse’s thought is, how a horse thinks. But being able to work with a horse in such a way that the horse is with you is mentally with you, that their thoughts are really with you, and then we can try to ask that horse to take that thought somewhere and then bring
himself along in such a way that there’s a real togetherness there. And for me, when I’ve been in wrecks or been in trouble, I mean, I’d be willing to say every time that’s ever happened, it’s because the horse’s thought wasn’t with me. The horse wasn’t with me.
And if I can really, from the very beginning, even in the tiniest little things, even when I go to halter my horse and start out, if I can ask that horse to bring his thought along with me and keep it with me, that’s when I have those moments that are really inspired and really moving, because, you know, the horse is such a special creature.
It’s amazing to me that a horse is created in such a way that it can dovetail with a human on so many levels if the relationship is strong, is together, if there’s real communication happening.
And, you know, every time I get that, every time I get that even for a few steps or a few minutes, it’s profoundly moving for me. I’ve been trying to get this down in words for years and years now, and sometimes I think I get glimpses of it, but I don’t think I ever really convey how emotionally deep that experience is for me.
Well, I do know this, when that horse’s mind wanders is oftentimes when the wrecks occur.
Well, yeah, you know, anyone that’s read much of my work knows that there have been times I thought a horse was with me, and then we had a rag, and then we realized that it wasn’t what was happening at all.
I got a great chapter, and, you know, honestly, I remember the chapter, but I can’t tell you the name or exactly. It was in one of the first two books, A Horse’s Thought or Between the Rains.
I can’t remember which. I was riding a horse, Neeji, and we were going up a driveway, and, you know, I threw a series of rather exciting experiences.
I discovered that, you know, just because we were going up the driveway and everything seemed like it was going good, the horse just happened to be wanting to go in the same direction I wanted to go, but we weren’t together.
But he wasn’t acting up. He wasn’t off the line. He was, but the only reason it seemed that way to me was because, you know, we were going along without trouble, and in the minute something happened to gain his attention off to the side, or he had a, he took his thought one way, and I wanted to take mine the other boy.
That’s when things really got bad. And so, you know, there’s, I had to get someone to actually watch me ride, and I, you know, that knew what was going on to let me know when that horse started to wander.
And I mean, it was quite an experience to understand that horse was wandering. His mind was going somewhere else in the first step, the first or second step, before we let alone, you know, a hundred feet up the driveway.
So it’s, those are the kind of things that I’ve really tried to, well, you know, I ride them out for myself in a way, and, you know, oftentimes it’s just me and a horse, a pad of paper and a laptop.
And I don’t know, I don’t always get a lot of feedback, but I’ve been at it long enough now, and what the new book having just come out of and getting more than usual.
And so it’s really nice to see that other people have shared these experiences and, you know, find, find mine helpful, or I, some people say, especially Harry Whitney is so prevalent in his, you know, he’s quoted frequently in there because he’s taught me so much, just being the, the, the fellow who’s been able to communicate with me the best out of, you know, you know, the teachers that I’ve sought.
And, you know, they say, well, it’s like, I can pull the book off the shelf and start reading. It’s like being at a Harry Whitney clinic.
And to me, that’s a huge compliment because it’s such a difficult thing, horsemanship, and the nuances.
As you know, I’m sure, you know, horses, no two horses are alike, and they’re two situations are alike, and they’re two people are alike.
And so how do we, how do we even talk about these things? You know, it’s just, there’s so much that has to be between the lines.
And, you know, in, in the narrative of a book about horsemanship, it’s, it’s so difficult.
And so I think that if the story, you know, if a story can convey an idea in a solid way, and people can, you know,
pull a book off the shelf and look at it and say, wow, it’s like being at a Harry Whitney clinic.
That’s about as good a compliment as I think I can ever receive, you know, because it means to me
that they’re saying, I am from, you know, either, either they’re being reminded of things that they already had a grip on
or else they’re having an aha moment where something that they’ve been licking and chewing on for a while kind of bloomed in their, in their mind.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, let’s, let me ask you this question. How did you get hooked up with Harry Whitney because he’s not exactly a household name?
Yeah, this is true.
You know, Harry’s been clinicing for 25 years at least, and he’s done a regular circuit of America, and he’s got a, a solid, if not, you know, smaller following.
But Harry, I got connected with Harry through my journalism.
When I was starting to write about horses, I was assigned an article. Well, actually it was my idea, but I got it assigned on picking up a soft feel
because personally I was trying to understand these things.
And so I was so compelled to try to figure out what these things meant and what they were, that it’s just like I had this unending list of articles to do
and if I didn’t know what they were, probably a lot of other people didn’t either and it was just, you know, a wonderful scenario for me as a journalist.
So I was doing what I call a round table discussion. I was talking to many clinicians about a single topic and getting different quotes to put an article together.
And I had interviewed, you know, a lot of clinicians that are more household names and, you know, much more marketed and promoted.
And a friend of mine is seen Harry. He comes to Tennessee each year. He’s actually there now for part of May and part of June.
Anyway, she said, you know, you really should talk to this guy about picking up a soft feel because he was just one of her favorite clinicians.
I was okay. So anyway, we got a number and when I was talking to Harry, you know, it was just such a different experience for me.
He was so careful at the words that he chose and he was kind of, you know, I want to use the word sort of humble. I mean, he didn’t have books. He didn’t have videos.
He wasn’t comfortable doing that kind of thing. I had never heard of him. You know, he didn’t have a lot of promotional things. He didn’t sell gear.
You know, he just, he taught people one-on-one. I mean, that’s just what he did. And for me, what he had to say really resonated.
And one of the things that he said was it’s very, very difficult to talk about these things. Maybe we could get together so we could have a horse and we could kind of go over it.
That it would be, you know, way, way better. And he invited me to come out to some clinics in Arizona. He has a place in Salome, Arizona.
And I was in no position to go to Arizona, but I went ahead and just on this crazy, I don’t even know why. You know, booked the flight and got the farm straight to leave and went out for two weeks.
And it just, it changed my life. You know, it changed my perceptions of horsemanship. And, you know, I had a lot of one-on-one time with Harry and horses and watching him in clinic settings.
It was the beginning of a really long friendship. And at that point also, it just, you know, it kind of became a one-on-one teacher student.
And I just, you know, have focused my resources and my time with Harry because he’s really resonated with me personally.
And so that’s how we met. And that’s kind of how it started. And since then, you know, the relationship and the friendship has bloomed.
And I’ve been to many of his clinics now. And he’s, he doesn’t write books. He doesn’t do videos. And he’s been very, very helpful with sort of vetting my material when I’m putting a book together, you know, because it involves his teaching.
It involves his quotes and some of the things that have happened to his clinics. So he’s been available to me to visit about, you know, what I’m putting down.
If he saw things the same way, if there’s anything I need to add to make sure a point is clear, those kind of things.
So, you know, in a lot of ways, horses fought between the reins and now further along the trail are, you know, really about Harry’s teaching.
And, and, you know, I have a lot of my personal experiences in there. But also, I’ve been to so many clinics.
If I see something that, you know, an instance at a clinic where I really learned something, you know, I’ll, I’ll work those in and get other people’s voices in there as well.
And, you know, these are a variety of different horses as well. It’s just, you know, been, been great fun. And I really appreciate, you know, Harry being open to allowing me to present him in these books because it’s, you know, to me, it’s, it’s really a blessing.
And it’s, you know, I think probably, probably very unusual. I don’t know if there’s any other books like this out there. So.
Well, Tom Doug on it, we’ve run out of time for this segment of the Horseman’s Corner. But, gosh, thanks for being with me this morning. I really appreciate it.
You folks, stay tuned. You’re listening to the Horseman’s Corner.
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